I would like to inquire as to what images are developing>?
I also tend to view the human being as a holistic unity, where feelings,perceptions, and sensations are interlocked and simultaneously influence one another.
On the concept of feelings as energy, I can’t help but to think of psychic energy ( due to my current schooling), competing energies that are “fueled” by natural drives, desires, and [past experiences that influence our cognitive and affective processes and actions in the “physical world”. Is this the line of thought you were thinking on? Or as you stated perhaps a more “holistic” perspective, (energy as in qi?)

On “But they obtained greatness, became “geniuses” (as they are called), through qualities of the lack of which nobody who is conscious of them likes to speak.”

I came upon a thought that may have some connection ;”Every progress of the whole must be preceded by a partial weakening. The strongest natures retain the type, the weaker ones help to advance it. Something similar also happens in the individual. There is rarely a degeneration, a truncation, or even a vice or any physical or “moral” loss without an advantage somewhere else. In a warlike and restless clan, for example, the sicklier man may have occasion to be alone, and may therefore become quieter and wiser; the one-eyed man will have one eye the stronger; the blind man may see deeper inwardly, and certainly hear better.”

As stated above when something “lacks” there is potential for another quality to grow stronger ( i.e. the eye, the blind man being able to look deeper with in himself, better hearing etc.) Perhaps this is the “lack” mentioned in our original quote of discussion. It is through the lack of some quality that the “genius” /great man cultivates some other extraordinary quality.

Although, I’m not entirely satisfied with this explanation of N.’s quote…Puzzling indeed.

As for the great man born of necessity and the “self-made” great man, I think this leads us back to determinism vs. free will. haha.
So I’ll have to suspend my judgment on that one for now.

This is one of the thoughts that I found interesting in this posting. I like the use of the word “interlock” here because a person (as a holistic unity) is more than just a pile of sensations, thoughts, etc. I like the concept “interlock” because it seems so true – it is a challenge for humans to separate feelings from beliefs/judgments/etc. Even after effortful introspection, it is difficult to sort out precisely why/where specific feelings have been generated.

I find I am also ruminating on the concept of “feelings” as “energy.” There’s some sort of interesting imagery that is developing here…..

However, as regards the second quote, I would want to inquire of N. – is the great man born of necessity on par with the great man who is great even when there is no *necessity* for him to be great? I think necessity makes great men (e.g. soldier heroes), but I tend to think more of the great man who is great even when Fate has not pressed him into that role.

This part of the quote: “…through qualities of the lack of which nobody who is conscious of them likes to speak” ….. is so typical of N. And it’s the part that I keep mulling over and over. Enigmatic and puzzling. What do you make of it?

On great men being born great or becoming great, I came across a thought from Nietzsche I thought you may find interesting;

“Do not talk of gifts, of inborn talents! We could mention great men of all kinds who were but little gifted. But they obtained greatness, became “geniuses” (as they are called), through qualities of the lack of which nobody who is conscious of them likes to speak. They all had that thorough earnestness for work which learns first how to form the different parts perfectly before it ventures to make a great whole; they gave themselves time for this, because they took more pleasure in doing small, accessory things well than in the effect of a dazzling whole”
Later he says…”But sometimes, when intellect and character are lacking for the formation of such an artistic career, fate and necessity take the place of these qualities and lead the future master step by step through all the phases of his craft.”

Any thoughts on this in relation to our conversation?

Dan

One of the things I keep circling as I consider this topic, is that the truly “great man” seems to stand outside of, or beyond, his society in some way. The great are recognizably great, and in every culture the great man is revered. But when I look at specific examples, there is always this separation between the person and their society. Not that they are outcast or estranged, but they transcend their culture.

If we were speaking solely biologically, I suppose the “great man” is the one who has developed the new adaptive trait that leads the species forward instead of dying off. But I know a “great man” is more than biology. (e.g. the diminutive Napoleon.)

I think a key point is that the great man, though standing beyond society, does not abandon society or turn against it? Rather, he seems to serve it, strengthen it, and propel it forward.

I agree with your world view about wisdom and virtue.
Something experiential is needed.
On a pivotal event or gradual direction.. I feel there would have to be something innate in that person that would cause them to perceive the event as a catalyst that fosters greatness. Or perhaps the event would change their perception?

Fate or divine providence makes sense as well, but it seems like then that some men would be destined for greatness and some would not. Negating “free will”.

Which do you think? ‘

A pivotal event and how that person reacts to it>?
Or, are men destined for greatness?

Thanks,
Dan

In my worldview, virtue is a habit (thus developed, not innate). “Wisdom” is a sketchy term… I guess it can mean either intelligence or prudence. I would say in both cases, it requires experience – still not innate. So it seems to me that while these are components to an individual’s overcoming, they are not the ultimate catalyst.

Your question is a good one… thinking about this, I feel there must be something experiential that is necessary. Either a pivotal event or a gradual direction? Or, heck, Providence/Fate?

Dan